Clipping

Hello everyone. Is it ok if the Output Channel Strip clips at 0.0dB? Throughout the duration of my song, the Output Channel Strip remains RED but it doesn't excede 0.0dB. Is that ok?

Thanks.

Jodie

Technically speaking, instrument channels are fine if they show they are clipping, the output channel however shouldn't be allowed to.

You might not be able to hear the difference if the meter is reading 0.0 so it is only just going over but if in doubt, stick a limiter on it and dial it to make sure if still sounds good.

After that, if it sounds right it is right :)

Hi YADJ:) How ya doin? Thanks for the information. Yeah, I know Olav Basoski says clipping instrument channels is ok, but why is the Output channel strip turning RED, indicating clipping, if it is at 0.0dB? 0.0dB isn't clipping, right? I'll check out the limiter and dial it like you said.

Thanks for your help.

Jodie

Hi Jodie,

I'm good tar. Spending far too much time on the internet but you know, better than eating a food mountain in front of the TV! You having a good night/ morning?

What I reckon is going on is that your output level would read 0.02 or something like that, and your fader would display that if it had more than one decimal place that's all.

At the end of the day, meters are just that, a visual aid to help you with your duties. The output channel is one you just have to pay a bit of attention to but that's not to say the meter is always going to be right.

Verify it with another meter. A really good free one is inspector by Roger Nichols, http://www.rndigital.org/inspector.html. There is a manual there which gives you a bit of gumf to read on levels too if that helps.

The ultimate decision, of course, will always come from the wingnuts on your head :)

YADJ is right, the little number is most likely rounding down, but you're still getting as much as 0.04999 dB of clipping.

It could be affected by your master output limiter not having a fast enough attack time or too short a look ahead value so it's missing certain large transient peaks in the output.

Hi again YADJ. Thanks for the info. I just brought down the Output Channel's compressor gain and that sort of did the trick. Can you tell me what is the difference b/w the compressor and the limiter?

Thanks.

Jodie

p.s. It's evening here in Kyoto, Japan:) The typhoon season is coming, usually for the month of June, and it is pouring like freakin crazy right now! DOH!

Hi Fusilli:) How ya doin? Nice to meet you. Thanks for the information. I'm still not sure as to WHY the red light keeps coming on if the dB reading is at 0.0? Isn't 0.0dB NOT clipping?

Thanks.

Jodie

[quote:44659]Hi Fusilli:) How ya doin? Nice to meet you. Thanks for the information. I'm still not sure as to WHY the red light keeps coming on if the dB reading is at 0.0? Isn't 0.0dB NOT clipping?

Thanks.

Jodie



Hi Riftmazefee!

0.0 dB is not clipping, but 0.01 dB is clipping. Logic's meter doesn't display enough decimals. If you are using a more precise Channel Strip, you will see that the output is actually clipping.

For example, check out the free Sonalksis FreeG :

http://www.sonalksis.com/index.php?section_id=99

Insert it on the insert of your Output and click on the "L Peak R" section of the FreeG plugin to see how much the signal is clipping.

Christian

Heh Christian:) How ya doin? Thanks for the information. I'm not sure what you mean, "For example, check out the free Sonalksis FreeG :

http://www.sonalksis.com/index.php?section_id=99

Insert it on the insert of your Output and click on the "L Peak R" section of the FreeG plugin to see how much the signal is clipping.
"

I don't understand what you mean when you say, INSERT IT ON THE INSERT OF YOUR OUTPUT

Hi Jodie,

OK, now I'm starting to picture what you're up to.
Rather than explain what the difference between a compressor and a limiter is, it might be easier to explain what they are commonly used for.

A compressor can be used to volume adjust, either up or down, all of the audio being processed, the fast transients of a sound (snare drum snap, punchy sounds in vocals) or the tail of a sound. It is also commonly used to squash sounds in that it enables you to raise the overall volume of a sound because it is more dense.

A limiter is mainly designed to stop peak transient sounds going over a set threshold. Otherwise known as a brick wall.... i.e. in your case, it would be used to stop it from clipping.

If you use high ratios on a compressor you are effectively turning it in to a limiter.

Do you understand/ have you played around with the threshold, attack, release and ration settings on the compressor? Do you understand what they do?

Hey Jodie!

How are you?

[quote:44659]I don't understand what you mean when you say, INSERT IT ON THE INSERT OF YOUR OUTPUT

What Christian means is to insert the plug-in effect (just like you would any other plug-in like the reverb or delay) onto the Output 1-2 track.

On a channel strip of a track, the 5 little empty rectangles at the top are called Inserts - clicking on an Insert displays the drop down menu where you can select plug-in effects in Logic and further down the menu you have access to 3rd party plug-ins installed on your system.


Cheers
Rounik

Hi again YADJ:) Thanks for the info again:) Yeah, I sort of have an understanding of how the compressor works but am still trying to figure it out. I guess I'll just keep playing around with it and reading up on the manual and my MacProVideo DVD tutorials:) And I'll keep bugging you:) hahahahaha:)

Thanks again.

Jodie

Heh Rounik. What's up? Yeah, I understand the inserts and all that, but I don't understand HOW am I supposed to get that into the Output 1-2 insert? When I download that, will it then be available in the Output 1-2 insert slot?

Thanks man:)

Jodie

Hey Jodie,

Yes, once you've installed the plug-in it will be available to any track, including the Output 1-2. You could, if you wish, insert it on an Aux track or soft inst. or audio track too.

Either open the Mixer and insert it on the Output 1-2 or in the Inspector, the channel strip on the right will be the Output 1-2 by default.

Cheers,
Rounik

Hi Jodie,

that's the way it should be! I've learnt shed loads on here and has always been a good place to start.

Just try and remember to use your ears. Meters are a useful tool and should be the initial guide, but ultimately I think it's always best to judge the end result on how it sounds. People will listen to your stuff not watch it on a graphic equalizer... although even then I'm sure there are some... 95 percentile and all that!

As for the output thing, have you opened up the mixer window as Rounik mentioned (windows menu and mixer) because in there is your master output bus. I take it you know that because you said that's the channel that's clipping. What you bounce down is whatever comes out of the output channel set to default out of your stereo 1-2 output. That's where you want to put the sonalkiss level meter or Logic's own under the helper plugin section I think. If you use Logic's level meter opt to show rms and peak volumes and that will give you a guide at what levels you are outputting at. Remember though it has to be the most final down in the insert list as possible, if you have other plug ins in your output... that compressor you are using for one.

Keep us up to speed if you need any more help :)

[quote:3745]
That's where you want to put the sonalkiss level meter or Logic's own under the helper plugin section I think. If you use Logic's level meter opt to show rms and peak volumes and that will give you a guide at what levels you are outputting at.
:)

Hi,

I was trying to explain why the Output Channel can clip at 0.0 dB. That's because Logic's meter (including the Level Meter plugin) can't display more than one decimal. The signal may clip at 0.02 dB, but Logic's output meter will still round it down at 0.0 dB in red.

The Sonalksis plugin is more precise than Logic's own meter and that's why I suggested it.

But the bottom line is... when the output meter turns RED, it is actually clipping, even at 0.0dB.

:-)

Christian

Hi again YADJ. Thanks so much for being patient with me:) I'll play around with Sonalksis now.

Thanks again.

Jodie

Arigato Gozaimasu Rounik:)